The Girl Geek Community is Hidden, Ever Wondered Why?

by sakuraso

This is essentially on my mind whenever I do anything related to my interests, particularly when it’s something within “the male demographic,” because obviously, as a girl I’m meant to only be interested in Jersey Shore or The Only Way Is Chelsea. If you’re a girl and you like Star Trek or Star Wars, then you’re going against the grain by actually knowing the damn difference, and beyond that, it’s pretty much incomprehensible. Though many would make an exception in Star Wars. Apparently we’re allowed to like Episode 1.

The strange thing is, I’ve found when talking to guys about geeky things, there is a huge discrepancy between the online geek community, and guys I meet in real life; through work, university, etc. The difference being that in real life, there is much less patronising. Recently at the pub with some of my coworkers, once the group dwindled down to four of us, with myself being the only girl, my cosplaying days were brought up (okay, meeting Leonard Nimoy is actually a highlight of my life, and if you give me leeway, ANY leeway at all, I will take it and I will bring it up, can’t help it.) And with the guys from work it was more of a surprise that I used to run around in an original series Starfleet science uniform, tribble, phaser and tricorder too. Which is fair enough, I imagine the thought process is along the lines of ‘you have green hair, and a multitude of piercings, most of which I’m pretty damn sure your mother doesn’t approve of. I could guess you being a Marilyn Manson fan, but Star Trek?’ My geekiness isn’t generally obvious. Well. Unless I’m wearing one of my Star Wars sneakers, that should clue people in a bit but… My point here is that these guys, who themselves probably get a lot of their own skewed looks amongst the ‘normal’ populace due to tattoos, piercings, funky hair etc, or just being really really really tall *coughDavecough* were merely surprised because it’s not obvious from the outside, or maybe because I don’t adhere to what society thinks a geeky girl should look like, should they even exist. Because we don’t actually exist, apparently. Ignoring for example, the Star Trek Oh No They Didn’t community on livejournal which is almost all women, and over 10,000 strong. Don’t exist indeed.

However. Online communities. For some reason, guys (and to be honest, some girls too), get in front of the computer screen and lose track of reality. Or maybe it’s the joy of being anonymous, so you can troll as much as you like. The only time this line is blurred is at conventions, but perhaps because it is a geek haven, internet anonymity rules still apply.

When I first started going to conventions it was because, obviously, I love sci-fi. Going to a place with like-minded people, where I can buy rare fandom related goodies, meet people whose careers formed my childhood and subsequent years that actually, formed who I am today and on top of that, I can dress up as someone from my favourite series. It was all so positive positive positive. The first time I didn’t dress up, I wasn’t going to just jump right in there. I had to check it out first, see how it’s done, what you do. See what the protocols were. I was also all about meeting Leonard Nimoy, nothing else mattered. I was mostly ignored, I was just yet another person in the masses churning round the rugby stadium temporarily converted into a sci-fi haven. But then I started dressing up with my friend. Suddenly things weren’t quite so fun and innocent.

It started around the time this picture was taken. It was fun. Though my ideas of actually being an introvert were tested quite extensively. We started a game of counting how many times we’d be asked for photos. We lost count. It wasn’t a big deal at first, I mean, pretty much everyone in costume was constantly being asked for photos, it’s normal, part of the fun. But then came the lechery. Yes, I’m in a Starfleet uniform, no, that does not give you the right to grab my ass. This is something you brush off though, you don’t dwell on it too much. You tell the ass to fuck off and then you move on.

Then however, I started checking the event forums after the conventions were over. It’s a great place where people can talk about what they did, how much fun they had, who they met, and even, getting in touch with people you met in passing and wanted to get to know better. Then other threads started popping up.

“Which cosplay girl was the hottest this weekend?”

I see. Apparently I was entered in a beauty pageant. And the comments! “There were those two Starfleet girls!” Aww, they noticed us! How nice! “Yeah man, I liked the red one! She has way bigger boobs” Well. Okay. “So true, her skirt was shorter too!” “Nah, the blue one was way better, and she wasn’t wearing black tights so you could see her legs better!

My happy dressing up fun time was just a geeky version of a pageant apparently. THIS IS WHY GIRLS FORM THEIR OWN GIRL ONLY FANDOM COMMUNITIES. You don’t deserve them in yours. It’s not even just the objectification, it’s the fact that we’re somehow meant to be in direct competition with each other. Me and Alice went for fun, we love Star Trek, so we dressed up, just for the damn hell of it. And because it amused George Takei to call us his yeomen. And because it amused John Barrowman because of the fandom clash. It’s also a handy way of identifying people from the same fandoms. And we were there together. Having the experience together. We weren’t there to outdo each other. I go online and apparently we were there to outdo each other.

Guys, you’re a social group that’s still made fun of in society. You get beaten up in schools. And everyone jokes that you’re going to be virgins forever. So why would you make girls -who like the same things you do and don’t judge you for being a geek- uncomfortable in your communities. It’s hard enough having to constantly prove our geek qualifications, because otherwise we’re not even considered part of the community – we have to prove we like the stuff, while the guys have a god earned right. In various forums I frequented half the time I found that I was talking to guys who knew much less than me on topics such as Star Trek or Star Wars were always part of the group, whereas every time people realised I was a girl, I’d be bombarded with very intricate questions those guys couldn’t answer, and if I couldn’t remember USS Potemkin’s registry number off the top of my head, I was obviously not in the right place, ‘run along and find yourself a my little pony community.’

The only time this happens in the realms of real life, is in Warhammer Workshops. Just thinking about it makes me rage like I’ve never raged before. A girl cannot walk into a workshop and be treated like a guy. A staff member will walk up to you, and will assume you know shit-all. “Do you even know what warhammer is?” Of course not! I just wondered in after following a trail of pink sparkles. Well done. I will never grace your shop with my custom ever again.

During a stunt meant to promote the launch of the online Star Trek game, which was an attempt to get a record in the Guinness book of records for most people in Star Trek costume – we did get it, though it was beaten quickly by the Americans. Unsurprising really. Few people knew about it, it was on Chinese New Year AND Valentine’s Day, and on top of that, during a weekend. Travelling on the weekend in London is horrendous at best. Like the conventions, there were a few guys objectifying the girls, but all in all, everyone was in it together, freezing our collective Starfleet, Borg, Klingon, Vulcan and Ferengi asses off in February. A rainy February. Though some of us skirt wearing trekkies were smart and wore thermals. Mmmm. Sexy.

Afterwards, one of the Star Trek fansites covering the event posted pictures and reviews, all nice and respectful. In the comments however, pageant judging started. Nothing as nice as looking at the guys and girls and judging their costume attempts. No. It was all about our collective assets under our uniforms and so on. Luckily not everyone is a douche, and after making a comment on twitter about it, the guys from the fansite told everyone off for their objectifying. Which was nice. That was the day I won an XBox at the record breaking raffle, oh yes.

Those were the days...

 It’s been so long ago I can’t remember the photographer’s name, he did a good job, though at the time we were somewhat worried…

The main point of this rant is this: if you genuinely want to interact with girls who share the same interests as you, stop chasing them away! If we love Star Trek, we want to talk about it with everyone. But if the guys make us feel patronised and as if we have to prove ourselves, not just as fans but as women in general, we’re just going to go off and make communities just for the girls. And we have. It suits us just fine. We can talk BAMF and GQMF to our heart’s content. We’re not off on our own because we’re all ‘girl power! no boiz kthnxbye’. We’re on our own because we don’t compare each other, and make each other feel unattractive or lacking in something, when all we really want to do is talk about our favourite fandoms.

So guys. There are plenty of geeky girls who enjoy all the stuff you do, and if you stop treating us like a rare species that you want to poke and prod and patronisingly teach to walk and talk, then you might just meet one.

If, however, you need to feel superior to someone. Stop complaining that you can’t get a girlfriend who understands you.

I think until conventions stop feeling like I’m being forced into a beauty pageant, I won’t be cosplaying. It’s just safer not to get involved. I also have William Shatner to thank, as he made me realise that when meeting your idol, you can still have a conversation and be memorable without having dressed up. I’m sure his reaction to us dressed up wouldn’t have been as awesome as George Takei’s anyway. Oh Myyyyyyyy. But then, even he talked to us not because of our uniforms, or his love for our tribbles, but actually, because we had a chat in Japanese. Other talents, for. the. win.

96 Responses to “The Girl Geek Community is Hidden, Ever Wondered Why?”

  1. The problem isn’t just men, there are numerous women out there who perpetuate this by being the outgoing flirty trollop on MMOs and the like. I find it better to just treat everyone as a male until proven otherwise personally. This doesn’t mean I’m going to be misogynistic towards women it just means I wont assume anyone typing like a girl or who says they are is one.

    • looool, oh I’m well aware, half the cosplayers out there are all about getting noticed and getting attention, hence their costumes not being anything like the original, just pretty much bikinis with something to imply that they’re from a particular series or whatever, it’s usually pretty obvious when someone’s out there not as a fan but as a special snowflake. This was just more of a rant about past experiences.

      The ones with the boobs out? People can judge them all they want, it’s what they desire anyway. The rest of us do it for the love of it XD

      I’m usually quite happy when people assume I’m a guy, though I don’t particularly hide my gender, it makes things a whole lot simpler XD

      • Really? ALL of them just want to be judged? No one has ever picked a costume like that because they really liked the character’s story or something?

        See, that’s the thing. I think as long as you have a category of “well, anyone dressed like *that* obviously wanted the attention”, it doesn’t really matter whether it’s “any girl at all” or “any girl in a short skirt” or “any girl with cleavage showing”. You’re subordinating the fandom to the opinions of random passing strangers who like boobs. I don’t think that’s good for anyone.

        • I can’t tell if you were actually replying to me… if so, I think you missed my point… When the costume isn’t actually related to any fandom, it’s just a bikini with a tiny sci-fi flourish, it’s definitely not because they like the character. Not to mention, with my friends, we tend to go talk to them, usually to compliment them on a great body, and also ask them about the costume and in those cases, it’s accompanied by a shrug and a ‘dunno’. I also never said ‘all’.

  2. I definitely agree that some females scue the perception of girl geeks by playing up the sex aspect, but sakurasaurus is bang on about it being their choice. I’m a geek girl who keeps her ‘ladies’ to herself. I’m a geek out of the love for geeky things, not the attention it brings me a chick.

    All girls have boobs, checkmark. Not all men are cheating jerks, checkmark. What other stereotypes should be checkmark here?

    Great article <3

  3. This is so spot on. Fellow geek guys who keep complaining that they can’t find others with their interests need to read this article.

    Personally, I think you should continue to cosplay. Not because people will be judging you, but because you said you just want to and like finding other fans to interact with.

    As a side note, I met my girlfriend in real life, not any of those stupid “geek dating” websites. (Guys, stop being “on the prowl” and just live life. Most people find their significant others that way instead.) We love cosplaying together and are looking to be judged on the quality of our costumes (we compete in competitions), not how attractive we look.

    • Thank you! ^__^ Me and my boyfriend are actually planning on Mass Effect cosplay together :3 It was the same with me and my boyfriend, we met randomly at a Japanese event, for both of us, we never thought the other would be geeky, but it was a lovely surprise once we started talking XD

      I’ve met lots of nice guys, the nice ones tended to just come up and say hello, the less nice ones were the ones hiding behind their screen names~ And it’s actually similar vice versa, which I definitely appreciate, geeky girls wanting guys with the same interests, and yet stereotyping geek guys as essentially all being like Big Bang Theory’s Sheldon, though less awesome, obviously XD This topic just has waaaaay too many angles to it >.<

      • I normally don’t chime in on such topics but I feel the need to do so now. Some guys only get girls by constantly looking and there is nothing wrong with online dating or even “geek” dating websites. Woman who want geeky men have to accept that a good part of us are socially akward and that some of us are going to even come off as creepy when we approach girls. Now I am of the opinion that women either need to take it or leave it. The fact is women and men are in a stand off on this. Girls want confident socially skilled guys yet the very nature of the geeky man is that he isn’t really good at being social.

        • I could not disagree with you more on this. First though, not sure where the online dating point came from..

          There is a big difference between socially awkward and being a complete douchebag. And my point was actually about men NOT approaching but just bitching about them online after NOT having approached them in real life at a convention. I’m sensing a bit of a TL;DR vibe here to be honest.

          The idea that women have to either take it of leave it is so …stupid. Sorry, but it is. Relationships work when there’s compromise. We shouldn’t change the people we date, we should accept them as they are, however when two people decide to start a life together, they need to compromise.

          I recently wrote a massive post about “nice guys” and assumptions, you should go read it. Because who said women want a confident socially skilled guy? Most of us want someone we can get on with, and preferably have interests in common. I’m not sure why you seem to think there’s some sort of battle going on here. A mindset like that can not lead to a happy, healthy relationship. A relationship is a partnership, you can’t enter a good partnership if you’re fighting some sort of battle.

          • The poster you replied to had said online dating was stupid and you seem to agree. I was commenting on your specific post. The fact is there is ALOT of lonely people who can’t find anyone in real life I certainly can’t. It has nothing to do for a lack of trying I promise you that. I was simply commenting that in our otaku culture alot of guys find that they shouldn’t have to bother to learn how to be “popular” to get a girl. The fact is men of this culture do everything directly. I directly tell every girl I like upfront and then get shot down. So no online dating is a great idea and yes I believe that people either have to accept this or leave it.

            • I’ve never actually said anything against online dating. I have several friends who found love through online dating sites, but the love only came after meeting and establishing common ground.

              This idea of being popular seems a very school like mentality. A direct approach isn’t bad in itself, but if you’ve never talked to someone, and they suddenly come up to you and tell you they like you… it’s putting you on the spot, and it’s pressure. It’s easier for everyone involved to strike up conversation and establish common interests, then you have something to build on. My ex-boyfriend took the upfront tact, before we even had a proper conversation. I was just, no thanks. I was put on the spot, and why should I commit to something when I have no clue what the person is like? I actually took the chance, but because we hadn’t put the groundwork beforehand, it just didn’t work out, because our personalities just didn’t work together, we wanted very different things. My current boyfriend, we talked a lot, realised we were incredibly similar in our interests, our personalities don’t clash, and we’re now in a very strong relationship, and we’re moving in together.

              You might want to read this post I wrote – http://sakurasaurus.wordpress.com/2012/03/26/gender-silliness/ because, well, women are complex. And so are men. Assumptions of any kind will only ever end in failure.

              I can’t speak for the high-maintenance girl for example, but for most of us, it’s a matter of finding someone we’re comfortable with, and someone we have things in common with. So just going up to someone and stating your interest immediately stops the feeling of feeling comfortable with the person, and on top of that, you don’t know about what you have in common.

              If a girl agrees to go out with a guy, before knowing this, in order to find out if she can be comfortable with him, and have common ground, then she’s leading him on. Because if it doesn’t work, she has to end it. So it’s not really fair to either party.

              • @leo I said my comment was on her specific post

                @saku

                I’m simply stating that is how we do things. I’ll continue to do so until it works

                • “Guys, you’re a social group that’s still made fun of in society. You get beaten up in schools. And everyone jokes that you’re going to be virgins forever.” sounds very much like a immature highschool mentality statement to me.

                  • And again you completely misunderstand. It’s a high school mentality, but it’s reality, it happens, and I have no control over that. The geek community gets a lot of ridicule. I’m not sure how you think me pointing out the reality of the situation is me having high school mentality.

                  • Yeah, but your “I’ll continue to do so until it works” is just so illustrative of the problem with [what seems to be] your brand of male geek. Clearly, the creepy, stalkerish, pushy, demanding, misogynistic, sexually desperate brand of behavior DOESN’T WORK. What do they say about insanity? Something about “doing the same thing over and over, and expecting different results?”

                    So… you intend to continue doing your creepy thing until it works. Good luck with that. You’re gonna need it.

                    You know who DOESN’T get to go back to a woman’s hotel room at a convention? It’s the guy who tries to grab her ass, tell her that her Starfleet skirt should be shorter, makes comments about how he wishes every girl at the convention (except fat ones) would wear Princess Leia Slavegirl costumes, and refuses to engage in intelligent fandom discussion with the woman under the assumption that she’s not a real fan. Yeah, that guy is getting nowhere.

                    You want to know who DOES get to go back to the woman’s hotel room? It’s the guy who sees the woman in the Starfleet uniform, asks her which Star Trek series she likes, engages in a meta discussion about TOS/AOS, gets philosophical about the alternative ending for the 2009 movie, debates who is the best Captain, discusses whether or not to consider “Enterprise” canon, buys her a sandwich while making a comment about having “sandwiches in the future,” and asks for her e-mail address. Then, he keeps in touch with her, is interested in her geeky mind, gets to know her, and agrees to meet at the next convention. At this point, the woman decides that this geek dude is interesting, and she decides to pack an Orion dancing girl costume for the convention, and on Saturday night at the con, IM’s the geek dude and says, “I’ve got a costume I want to show you. I’m in room 427.”

                    Being “socially awkward” is no excuse. Try simply being considerate and polite. I know, I know… it’s really hard to force yourself to consider other people first, but if you want anything more than rejection from both women AND society, you might want to give it a try. And tell other geek males to do the same.

                    I’m married to a geek woman I met at a convention. Happily together for about five and a half years now. A friend of mine is a slim-built, astrophysicist, Trekkie nerd with glasses… and he gets plenty of female attention. Wanna know why? Because he’s a feminist, and it’s not just for show.

                    Oh, and Saku pointing out the REALITY that the “creeper geek” is still a social group that is mocked in society is not an immature high school attitude. You seem to be under the impression that YOU are pointing out reality, but Saku IS pointing out reality. Now, some of us geeks are no longer social outcasts. We blend in with society, we bathe, we adhere to basic social courtesies, and so on. Consider it an upgrade. And for this Geek 2.0, we’ve also leveled-up by treating our fellow geek women like equals. Because they ARE our equals.

                    • hmm. Also I’d like to point out I don’t really find slave girl outfits appealing. Anyway looking for a relationship not random sex.

                • I think it’s a case of how -you- do it, not everyone. Because many geeks are rather successful, probably because they don’t treat it like a game or battle.

                  I want to point out the ridiculousness of continuing doing something that obviously doesn’t work in the off chance that the rest of humanity will change. It’s not really adapting to the situation is it? It’s like going to a job interview in jeans and a tshirt and completely unprepared, failing every single time, but then refusing to learn from the experience because ‘it’s just how you do it’ – where’s the logic?

        • Please note, the OP wasn’t talking about dating, or even girls *looking* for guys. You said that girls either need to “take it or leave it,” but you’re already making the false assumption that they want it in the first place!

          The OP just wanted to ATTEND an event in costume. Women go to conventions, and automatically get treated as though they’re on display and on the market, like a damned piece of meat. And we’re not even talking about “approaching” girls in an attempt to make a connection. Did you read what she wrote? People were rating the OP and her friend on a website after the event. That’s not “approaching a girl.” That’s just obnoxious.

          See, there’s a difference between socially awkward and completely out-of-line. No, these guys aren’t just socially awkward. They’re being predatory and disgustingly misogynistic. Out. Of. Line. A person can be completely socially awkward and still try to have a general sense of how to treat people like human beings, not objects. The difference isn’t so obscure.

          I’m sorry you think all geek guys are socially awkward. If you keep setting the bar so low for yourself, I’m sure you’ll do a great job of living up to it.

  4. Side note: Love your TOS skirted uniform. You got the details right. That’s a rare sight. Most conventions I’ve gone to, the one group in TOS costumes are guys wearing the tunics two sizes too big (“I’m not a Small, we all know shirt size is equivalent to penis size!), the girls wearing the dress two sizes too small (“LOOK AT ME I HAVE LADYPARTS!!!”), and all of them look, well, bad. So thank you for not doing that.

  5. And I meant to say they were the Rubies rubbish, on top of it.

    You’re most welcome. Although I’m not into Mass Effect, I saw some seriously wicked armour at the last con I was at. It was nearly motion picture quality.

    Yeah, I’m definitely not like Sheldon and neither are most of the other geek guys I know. He’s a stereotype played up for comedic effect. Most geeks don’t actually think the Brady Bunch relates to Romulans in any way. XD

    Despite that my girlfriend cosplays as male characters, she’s gotten a couple of creepers, both male and female…

  6. Oh my god. I just posted an epic reply and it got lost due to not letting me post it due to an email snaffu. FUUUU-

    Anyway. I just came here to say (here I go again) that reading this gave me a severe issue of male guilt – it’s a lot like white guilt. I come from this culture. I’m a 22 year old Londonish based geek who loves Trek. And I feel that while I can’t defend these actions, I’d like to at least attempt to explain them.

    BTW, I’d just like to state this now and clearly – I’m referring to the socially awkward geeks here who mean well but mince words, not the mysogynisitc “Tits or GTFO” crowd.

    There’s a tonne of issues at play here, but I think the most important and disturbing is the herd mentality, at least online. Once someone does it without consequence, all the other people who would otherwise have STFU pipe up. I think (hope) a lot of these people are emotionally stunted 14 year olds who don’t know better. Lord knows I was one of them. I think it all starts at school. Being the only Trekkie in the village, I was taken the piss out of for it. Not like “OMG I WANT TO DIE” bad, I know others unfotunately have it much worse, but enough to paint a dark cloud over my days in School. I know I’d have much rather spoken to Amy about her Pokemon backpack than speak about her “tits” or what have you, but If I’d have come out with “Charizard is Awesome!” I would have been beaten back to the stoneage. Which isn’t fair because Charizard IS awesome, but the rest of the 14 year old boys who wanted to fuck the 14 year old girls would have taken that as a sign of weakness and pounced to prove their worth. When it comes to teenagers – and by and large the internet, It’s more dangerous and beastly than the plains of Africa. Thankfully, when I got to Uni I was greeted with the revelation that other people my age liked Star Trek too – and the biggest, Best of Both Worlds esque revelation – some of them are girls too! *Cue the Ron Jones music*

    Well, anyway, that revelation was a good thing for me. Of course I was a horny bugger but things quickly prevented me from making an ass out of myself, and now I’m overjoyed to call these people my friends. I’d call myself lucky in that I’ve had that transformative experience (even though it was simply just making friends with a couple of girls – shocker). The issue here is, I don’t think a lot of guys in this group do have any kind of a relationship with women who aren’t their mothers or sisters because, like me, School was a pretty rough fucking time where the only girls who spoke to you laughed at you. There’s probably some deep rooted psychological issue there in how this group of fandom by and large treats women. It’s not an excuse. It’s an issue that needs to be dealt with. Unfortunately, without the big men telling them to straighten up and fly right, on the internet that’s going to be a real hard pill to swallow. Of course, you could also go the other way with this and simply say that because It’s not known to be a diverse culture, internet forums/comment sections divulge into the same type of conversation you’d have with friends in a pub – even though theres hundreds of people there, only your friends can hear you over the noise so you could get away with being a dick. The problem is the words tend to stay there on the internet forever.

    Now, I hope this has come across as a balanced opinion of a forever aloner type, but of course this is the second time I’ve typed this, and I’ve just come off a BSG episode binge (Season 2, a fine vintage) and after writing this twice at half 12 Im feeling a bit tired. So sorry if this is crass or abrasive. I’ll go crawl back to whatever pit I came from. :P

    - Sci Fi Dave

    • Don’t worry, I’m actually completely with you on this! My rant was essentially purely on the anonymity enabled herd mentality. And Warhammer Workshops. And I am more than well aware of all the different angles to look at this from, I had considered writing a less ranty post about it, but then I realised it would be longer than my actual dissertation.

      To be honest I was rather worried this post might look all man-hating and whatnot, but all my male friends (99.9% geeks) assured me that it was absolutely fine, but maybe that’s because they know me, and they were reading it through a whole different set of filters. Aaaaand some of them I met at conventions too XD;

      I imagine part of the well… bitchiness is a bit of an envy, kind of like in school ‘girls don’t like me… but that’s FINE, they have cooties ANYWAY’. I bet all the ones that come out to the forums are the ones that couldn’t go up to all the cosplayers and just say hi. Or maybe they did, but picked that annoying minority who are there to show off their magnificently enhanced boobies in something somewhat relevant to the convention… I imagine this would be an excellent PhD thesis…

      • Hah, It probably would be. Relating to this topic – I did my disseration on Star Trek. in 3 days. A week before deadline. And got a 2.2 for it.

        Sure, it’t not a great grade, but its not a 3rd, and I did it in THREE DAYS. And I got a 1st for my FMP anyway.

        Yup, it was this failed animator’s moment of glory.

        And FWIW, I don’t think it came across as bitchy. It was just a lot of problems with no causes.

        Plus I’d just like to say, I think your real frakin’ brave. I’ve never rocked a costume (well, once at the Star Trek Exhibition in Edinburgh when I was 4, but never again) to a con. Although Star Trek London is coming up….

  7. I find it funny you stereotype in your own post… Saying “Guys, you’re a social group that’s still made fun of in society.”

    FYI I’m a nerd, a geek, whatever… Ive played games sponsored as have many of my friends. I’m also goodlooking and a couple of my gamerfriends have modelled… I’ve also had sex with several hundred women… I STILL will objectify hot cosplayers! Why would I stop? Makes no sense, girls are sexy why would I stop thinking that just because they game or cosplay? No I wouldn’t.

    I as a man will forever to some level objectify women, and there is not one damn thing wrong with it! Women objectify us men as well. Does it mean that’s ALL there is? No, but cosplay is interesting for two reasons, authenticity of the costume and sexyness. That is all

    • I don’t think you -quite- got my point, it wasn’t about the objectification in itself, it’s the pageant-esque way in which is done.
      I’m in two social groups made fun of in society, that wasn’t the point, and it was hinting at the general background of a lot of people.

      Though it seems to me like you’re trying to troll. Why would you need to tell me you slept with several hundred women? It’s not remotely related to anything I wrote. I was talking about a small minority who infringe on the fun of others. Not about anyone’s ability to sleep with anyone.

      I think I might have just hit a nerve with you that then… caused you to assume things about what I wrote, for which I’m sorry. I am a geek, my boyfriend is a geek, and so are many of my friends. This post is not about that…

  8. Dave: Thanks for your insight into it. You and everyone else here might be interested in this opinion piece about the misogynistic treatment of women in geek culture.

    http://moviebob.blogspot.com/2012/03/big-picture-not-okay.html

    • Thanks for the link. While that is right on the money, I would contest that those aspects of geek culture don’t come from geek culture – in the examples he used (I’m probably going to regret this but fuck it, it appears true) the tropes of sexism and racial stereotyping are virulent in asian countries such as Japan. Now, I’m just going to say it – by and large I do not like Japanese produced media. I find manga and anime to by and large be a stunted genre that is long past an evolutionary dead end in terms of style and content not just because it all looks the same, but because I honestly can’t think of an example of Japanese geek culture that has ONCE represented women in a manner that doesnt either give them some deformity, be it the loss of a limb or HUGE breasts. Now, I’m sure there *HAS* to be examples that don’t perpetuate this – but the culture is designed to hook into the 14 year old forever aloner mentality with promises of seeing naked women all the time and because the country of Japan is essentially marketed as accepting of all social perversions is a culture that not only tolerates this form of bigotry, but promotes it.

      One of the few times when I went and sought out a product of that was anime, it was Halo: Legends. Now I’m a HUGE Halo fan – take that as you will, yes, its a game where a genetically enhanced superman runs around and shoots aliens in the face. Not exactly re-enforcing my paragon virtues with that, but I like it. Well, anyway, being a big fan of a sci fi franchise of course I like to find out more about the universe any way I can, so I’ve read the books, bought the toys and when an animated series was coming out, I HAD to get it. Well, I got it, and was note impressed. There is a story on the DVD called “The Package”, its a rather intricate CG animated affair compared to the other hand drawn animations so me being a CG animator is bound to be attracted to this. I watch it. Ok, so, we got the old white grizzled general giving orders to everyone. Oh there’s a black guy spartan. Oh, he’s a real sassy black guy spartan *facepalm* who DIES FIRST. *double facepalm*. Ok, so, what else are you gonna throw at me. Oh, the girl Spartan fucks up and needs to be saved. Ok. Sure. Space battles can be hairy. Now, go get this Package. They get to it, and its Dr Elizabeth Halsey, the brilliant scientist who created the SPARTAN project. For those of you unfamiliar with the Halo backstory, due to certain circumstances The Spartan’s see Halsey as a mother. In the books, she was always described as in her 20′s when she starts the project, and as she oversees the developement of these kids into soldiers over the span of about 20 years, would be in her 40s, no? Maybe in her 50′s even by the time the war rolls around in Universe. But, for SOME reason, in this anime she is depicted as a blonde, 20 something supermodel with perky breasts and the size 0 character model. Even though EVERY OTHER form of media which featured her as a character presented her as around middle aged when the Spartan’s started active duty, and perhaps closer to 50/60s by the time the war with the covenant rolled around (All in universe gunk, but stick with me) she was just presented as the 20 something supermodel. Because….? I sure as hell don’t know. But I’d guess it’s because 20 something super models sell better? Even though she’s not on any of the promo material, and is only featured for about 4 minutes out of a 20 minute short? Anything more I say would just be bigoted speculation, but my point is – everything that *I* have seen from this culture, especially at cons like London Expo do nothing but to further the mysogynisitc attitude toward women by selling them *literally* as dolls, body pillows and mouse mats with “boob rests”. Ugh.

      And while moviebob is completely right in his “its not ok” – it isn’t – approach, but practically everything he mentioned was from an asian culture and that was ignored.

      Now, please, do call me closed minded. Do call me a douchebag. I’m well aware not ALL anime is like this, I’m aware of classics such as Akira, or Space Battleship Yamato or the work of Studio Ghibli or Ghost in the Shell – I’m aware and can apprecieate these for telling a different story, showing a different side of that culture. But when those 4 examples are the only ones people can give me out of an entire plethora of content – I think there’s something rotten. But please, proove me wrong. Prove to me that the examples offered in that video are JUST a co-incidence that happen to be all forms of asian created media.

      Of course, you could also point out that everything I’ve just said is bullshit by mentioning Xbox Live as a sorry example of western racism and sexism, and you’d be right. But its not quarter to 2 and I don’t want to write another epic comment. :(

      • I’m loving all your epic comments XD You write in a way that is incredibly enjoyable to read.
        At this point I should however point out that my degree is Japanese, and boy could I write you an epically long essay on the problems in Japanese society, and I actually like the country, that says something in itself…

        Dave, I just stalked you on facebook and we have a mutual friend, I am rather befuddled. Small World…

      • May I suggest Giant Robo. I think it would be an anime you might find enjoyable. There is also manga for it. I also recommend Slayers. Granted with Slayers the main protagonist, Lina, does have some boob issues. However, this isn’t brought up often(it’s really comic relief). She has a lot of confidence in the rest of her appearance and abilities. Hellsing is another good one. Hellsing Ultimate(the 2nd anime made from the manga) is almost complete. I believe they’re down to the last episode.

        Okay list mode time:

        Trigun
        Vampire Hunter D(I admit that the manga is rather female exploitative. However, Doris is awesome…so is D)
        ROD(Read or Die) The main protagonist is a girl who wears glasses, loves to read, and can manipulate paper to her will. What’s not to love.
        Serial Experiments Lain(this one’s trippy)
        The Twelve Kingdoms(based off a book series. I recommend the books since the anime only goes through 2 seasons)

        Btw, my name is Sandahl, and I am a second gen geek. I have not personally dealt with this particular issue, however I do not doubt it’s existence. I’ve had friends who’ve dealt with stupid litmus tests or outright ostracism for having a set of tits. I tend not to troll around, so I haven’t come upon these groups of miscreants. I also draw, which might put me into another category. *shrug*

        I cosplay every now and then. My sewing skills are poop, so I don’t much. I do plan to cosplay Ginrei from Giant Robo for the Giant Robo gathering at Anime Los Angeles next year.

        If you love to cosplay, cosplay. Whenever a horndog tries to make a competition out of it when it isn’t, roll up a newspaper and smack him on the nose with it. :)

    • That’s rather an excellent video! Thanks for sharing!

  9. Oh for God’s sake it doesn’t mater if your a geek to guys. You are a GIRL first. You know guys see you sexually first, then as they get to know you see you as a geek. We men go everywhere balls first, sorry.

  10. Jesus fucking Christ, this post is just a train-wreck. The TL;DR version is basically: “I don’t like when men who have no shot with me talk about me as if they had any chance whatsoever.” That is what this boils down to, and it’s not exclusive to “grrrl geeks” or whatever. Women always feel uneasy being judged as a potential mate by males that they have rejected. It’s not at all why women band together in their female-exclusive communities – which also exist outside geek culture, believe it or not!

    As for why “men” like to make anonymous comments on random pictures and videos on the Internet, it is a mystery and it’s sad that it only affects female Star Trek geeks. Imagine if I searched for Justin Bieber videos on youtube, while being Justin Bieber. What are the odds that someone would have an opinion on me? Clearly there needs to be a Justin Bieber exclusive website community forum group where nobody else is allowed so that Justin Bieber may be sheltered from any unwanted attention.

    Oh, and whatever invention you used to identify the sex of every person commenting your big tits could probably be sold to NASA for like a billion space dollars.

    To end on a positive note: I like how you berate beta males and call alpha males “nice.” It shows that you are using rational thinking and not just acting the way your hormones tell you to act. Alpha males are much nicer than disgusting beta males (who should get scorned for being shy and awkward.)

    • Unfortunately you didn’t read the post properly, and have pretty much made up content.

      It was nothing to do with anyone having been rejected or any such BS, the people I’m talking about never even approached me. Probably judging without knowing anything, like you. Many of the guys at cons that just came up an said hi I’m friends with, because funnily enough, we have common interests.

      My boyfriend thought ‘he had no chance’, but you know what? He just bloody talked to me.

      It sounds like you have some baggage, possibly from being rejected I’m guessing. And you’re very much projecting this onto my post.

      Oh, and the “alpha males” you’re disparaging are genuinely nice guys, most of whom are hardcore gamers.

      I’m sorry my post hit a raw nerve, but if you would just read my post without thinking about your own experiences, you’d see what I actually wrote is quite different from what you think I did.

    • Oh, and FYI. I’m the one with the small tits, kthnx.

  11. I don’t have anything to add to this excellent post, except to reiterate that Warhammer people* are the goddamn worst.

    *I have known some awesome guys and gals who play Warhammer, but they are in the minority.

    • It’s something that happens to people when they get a job at the workshop o.O since I posted this several of my male friends admitted they had similar experiences. Someone should really investigate… Brainwashing perhaps? O.o

  12. Gd point, lol, prodding and poking, lol. Suddenly i do really wish I could meet you…

  13. All I have to say to this post is, where the hell were girls like you? When I was younger. That’s not to objectify you, but to say, wish I could have hung out with your crowd! Kudos!

  14. I am so glad someone else has similar issues! Being a Star Trek gal in a man’s world is horrible, especially if I dress up. The comments are degrading and turn me into nothing more than an object. Sad, really. But a wonderful thought and thank you for sharing it. And, PS, meeting Leonard Nimoy is awesome. I’m beyond jealous.

  15. Reblogged this on A Pirate and Her Soldier and commented:
    I guess the objectification of women is just as much prevalent in Sci-Fi as it is in the Pirate world. Don’t know what I’m talking about? Read my tale, read hers, and you tell me if things aren’t so similar.

  16. Real Norwegian, Brian, Steve from Marketing…

    Anyone else smell trolls here? :)

    • haha, I couldn’t help but respond XD there were a few others but I thought they’d find it more annoying if no one got to see their trolling XD

      • I like your style, Aleks.

        I have a Blogger… I generally don’t even approve those types of comments anymore. I know where they’re all from, and those people have nothing better to do than tear down others to boost their ego. It’s quite sad, actually, given they’re mostly grown men.

        • I think in those cases, calling them ‘men’ is really rather.. gracious. Such behaviour is only really indicative of something rather significant missing in their lives. In this case the writers of certain comments are obviously in possession of serious baggage. You can’t help but pity that right?

          Not to mention, usually for every troll, there’s 3 or 4 very nice people who are actually interesting to talk to XD …The trolls are usually devoid of any interests and talents, and so are determined to put everyone else down :/

  17. Howdy! Found this post via an RT on Twitter. It’s particularly interesting to get insight from a Trekker; as it turns out, women were the majority of attendees at the early Trek conventions. So one thing that’s happened, I think, is that our set of tribes has allowed business interests to define fandom as a male pursuit, and define female participation by a very narrow set of body-related guidelines (the archetypical “booth babes,” for example.) So it was really encouraging to see your final pic showing women of a variety of body types and races. Keep up the good work!

  18. If you think it’s tough to fit in with the geek culture as a young female, try being a 40-something female and talking to geeks 1/2 your age. I saw the Star Wars and Star Trek movies at the local drive-in when they first came out, was obsessed with Tolkien and played D&D. Some people need to get over the idea that females are merely aberrations in geek culture, or, in the case of Asian culture, decorative little girls in porn-star bodies designed to titillate men who are too insecure to date adult women. I’ll cut my rant off here, as I could go on and on about the obvious psychological reasons for the way women are treated in those countries, and ours. Argh. Whatever. Now I’m going to have to go watch some old Firefly episodes and calm my ass down.

    • oh lol, didn’t you know? If you’re physically fit, you’re there to just look good, if you’re not physically fit, you’re there for a laugh, if you’re over 29… wait what? there are women over 29?!

      …Though that’s not fair, while in school, all my female friends seem to think life ends at 30 -.-;

      Anyway, it’s just arrogance, not only rejecting people knowing more than them, but also the idea that people were fans before they themselves got into that fandom. >.<

  19. I have a lot of respect for the female geek community, I don’t troll them or make perverted comments or anything like that online. I’m just happy that there are girls out there that like a lot of the same things I do. Many of the guys I’ve seen on websites and live video chats that feature girl geeks tend to act like a bunch of chauvinist pigs, while I prefer to stay classy and respectful to the ladies trying to represent the female geek community.

    Unfortunately, most of the girls out there – even the geeky ones – seem to be more attracted to the guys who act like classless d-bags than they would be to a guy like me who tries to be a gentlemen to them. I do wish there’d be a geeky girl who’s single and shares many of the same interests as me who would accept me for who I am (it doesn’t help that I have Asperger’s syndrome), and not be more attracted to the condescending d-bags out there.

    • I do think the idea that girls like assholes is a bit… misunderstood. I’m sure there are plenty who are, but most of us would rather not date an ass. For the girls who don’t like the asses, it’s probably that they simply don’t realise they ARE asses, those are the types of guys who exude so much confidence, they can charm girls.
      I think a lot of the (I’m sorry but) self-proclaimed ‘nice guys’, a term I actually hate – there are nice guys, and then there’s the “nice guy” – and I’m afraid the “nice guy” tends to have some baggage, and I’m afraid you can sense it. It’s that awkward moment when someone comes up to talk to you because they’re proving a point that you won’t talk to them.. That’s never going to signal a good relationship. Some guys also have a problem of being so nice and so respectful that they sacrifice some of themselves, we’re just girls – you don’t have to agree with us on everything to have a chance XD

      It all really just comes down to being yourself. And you never know. I was out at an event once, saw a guy I thought was beautiful and couldn’t take my eyes off all night, but was too scared to talk to myself, and eventually made my friend go get his name for me for facebook… turns out he was looking at me all night and was too afraid to talk to me, and I imagine didn’t think we’d have much in common, but when I added him on facebook he saw all my geeky things and messaged me… we’ve now been together… 6 months? And we’re moving in together. So yes. You just never know.

      I had a fear that since he was so damn pretty, he was going to… not be nice, and that he would never be interested. And he thought I wouldn’t give him the time of day…

      My elongated point being, there are plenty of single geeky girls out there that would be interested, it’s just finding people that’s hard. You can try meeting people through fandom related places, that way you’d know they have the same interests, or just meet people normally and it might be a nice surprise if they turn out to also have the same interests! Or are open to new stuff – I always thought introducing someone special to all your interests would be an awesome way of building a relationship :O ….and so much easier to pick out stuff to watch. Me and my bf have pretty much all seen the same stuff D8

      But yes! Don’t be fooled by the idea of girls liking assholes. I swear it’s a stereotype perpetuated by the guys who pick the bitchiest girl in the bar, get rejected.. aaaaaand the guys who go up to girls and are super creepy, but then choose to believe they got rejected through no fault of there own XD there are plenty of bitches out there, but most aren’t – you just need to talk to them to find out :O I was serving a guy at work, and since it was a slow night I struck up conversation, 4 drinks later he told me he thought I’d be a complete bitch, and was incredibly surprised I was chatty with him XD …but I guess that’s my own fault for having silly hair and piercings in stupid places XD (…though I find that when walking down a dark street, the facial piercings really help to dissuade creepers XP)

      I’m afraid I’m all rambly XP My excuse is that it’s 4am >.< my excuse and I'm sticking to it XD

      but yes! there be plenty of girls out there, you just need to work on getting a good radar and filter :P

  20. Sakurasaurus,

    This is an astute and thoughtful account, thanks for sharing it. I’ve linked it through my blog, and added some thoughts of my own.

    I hope that you find it easy make and pursue all of the fun fandom chances you want, and that the tide of inclusiveness and feminism overwhelms the dumb in the end, and not long from now.

    Link: http://geektheory.wordpress.com/2012/03/21/sexism-and-exclusiveness-in-fan-communities/

  21. I’d like to start off by thanking you for posting this.

    I was linked to this article by a woman in one of my Facebook groups. Though I am not into Star Wars / Star Trek and have never Cosplayed, I am also a female that is in the minority of a nerdy group: I play competitive Magic. Females in Magic have faced similar situations to the ones you described ever since we started showing up to sling cardboard. Alienated by our male peers, some of us have formed our own groups just to avoid the harassment and blatant sexism that being a girl in a game shop induces. We have to try twice as hard just to fit in; we are always seen as females before players; opponents often say things like “I got the bye this round” or “I can’t believe you just lost to a girl” when paired against us; any mistakes we make are only due to the fact that we have boobs.

    This paragraph sums it up nicely:

    “Guys, you’re a social group that’s still made fun of in society. You get beaten up in schools. And everyone jokes that you’re going to be virgins forever. So why would you make girls -who like the same things you do and don’t judge you for being a geek – uncomfortable in your communities. It’s hard enough having to constantly prove our geek qualifications, because otherwise we’re not even considered part of the community – we have to prove we like the stuff, while the guys have a god earned right.”

    So thank you. Thank you for writing this and sharing your experiences, thank you for drawing attention to the problems instead of shrugging them off as many of my male friends advise (“How dare you get offended?”). Though the details are different, the situations are the same.

  22. I have to say as a guy, if I meet a lady who is a fellow geek I give them credit, they can like Star Trek, Star Wars, Doctor Who, Ronin. It doesn’t matter They are welcome into my friends circle anytime.

  23. You were right, I feel it’s a touch ranty and (to me, a complete stranger) a bit hostile, but hey we’re all working with some bias. Anyway, if it’s a rant in the proper sense, I’d say a bit of imbalance and unfairness should be expected and understandable.

    Despite there being some interesting tangental points raised to your post in the comments, let me try to focus based solely on the title and your summation: you are asserting that male geeks should be more inclusive of female geeks? I can get behind that, and have been behind that for years.

    For the hostility you have previously experienced at workshops, all I can posit is that the older men are being very territorial with a hobby that few women were interested in until relatively recently. Men are quite territorial with *other men* when it comes to dearly held hobbies. For the younger men, perhaps they have been marginalized by women for so long that they’ve reclaimed their ostracization and staked out a zone for themselves and their hobbies/interests only. Not an excusal, but a musing on tribal behavior, if you will. All I can suggest is keep trying to find a shop that will treat you equally or found your own (hopefully inclusive) group. W40K is a specialized hobby for a particularly passionate type of hobbyist, and the same stubbornness that would enable a person to become skilled in it also makes them quite stubborn about other things (like lowering barrier/s for entry to that hobby).

    As far as the objectification goes, I believe it’s going to be a hazard for a while yet. The vocal people that comment on the internet may not have met you, may never meet you again or may never meet you at all, but they certainly have a forum for their opinion, justified or not. I find it easier to think of the internet as the collective mind of all humanity, so every opinion, no matter how good or noble, no matter how vile or cowardly, is going to be represented on it. Until we can – every one of us – get to the point where we’re all going to make fair and reasonable comments on the internet, you’ll either have to be leery of all internet shenanigans or to dispassionately filter ideas with merit from ideas without. If there is no greater champion nor a harsher critic of one, than oneself, nothing written on the internet should be cause for surprise or dismay.

    I suppose if we wish to maintain separate-but-equal camps of XX or XY fandoms, that’s each side’s prerogative: a safe space/clubhouse for the genders to focus on the fandom. But I daresay there needs to be a middle ground as well, and both sides have different methods they need to work out in order to create that coalition space. I can speak only from my progressive XY outpost, I for one would welcome being actively approached or befriended by female geeks, and have been. I have never turned down a beer from a female geek nor have I ever outright shut down anyone who’s been gutsy enough to open a channel to me. I’m that quiet, neatly-dressed normal-looking guy at the end of the bar, that man off to the side bobbing his head at the con ball, or the average-looking fellow who came to the masquerade afterparty by himself because his buddies were too tired from con to stay up late. So quite literally, we’ll have to find each other one at a time.

    • This was very much just a rant, I wasn’t expecting it to get 30,000+ views, had I realised it was going to be so viewed, I would have ranted less XD But yes, it was very much a rant, and a rant about a specific minority and definitely not about the wider geek and male communities.

      You have so many great points, but I wanted to address your point about never meeting the men objectifying you on the internet – in this case, I was making the point that the objectification came from the guys who were right there at the conventions with me. In the series of conventions I used to go to, the general custom was to log onto the official forum after the event, and share with everyone who you met, what you bought, what you got signed, share your photos etc. And it’s on -those- forums, that I object to the objectification. Random people on the internet who you’ll never meet, whatever. However, in these circumstances, it’s people who go to the same event. And the following events, you’re very much aware that those people are around again, knowing they’re judging you from a distance. And so often their comments involve a judgement on our attitude, that apparently we’d never “deign” to talk to them, which is based on absolutely nothing. I have never brushed anyone off at a convention, in fact, whenever we were asked to pose for photos, we’d try to get some conversation out of the photographer, see what they want from the convention etc. But usually they take the photo and run off. Had people seen me ignore someone, maybe I could understand some judgement, that they wouldn’t want to make an attempt to talk to us, but no. I guess it’s just a testament to the fact that judgmental people will just keep on judging, but it comes back to the main point of my rant, is it any wonder some of us choose to hang up our cosplay? :(

      Anyway, before I rant some more, thanks for your comment!

  24. I’ve actually been in a few fan-groups that were heavily populated with women. Sadly it has shown me that both genders are open to doing the same bad things. One of the earliest groups I was in was a Ronin Warriors fan group in which I was actually the only guy, mainly because our only other male member got banned for being crazy. One of the girls in this group wanted me as her “internet bf” and in the end only so she could brag to the other girls in the group. When I finally spoke my bit about not wanting to be her bf she through a hissy fit of a size that is probably why most of the group members stopped coming to the group…

    Thankfully most of my experiences with women in fandoms have been positive. I also have not yet gotten a girl that has treated me badly for liking fandoms that are more girl oriented (Sailor Moon, WITCH, and the like).

    • Oh, if I was to rant on how girls act in certain fandoms, we’d be here forever :P Some J-Rock artists have some seriously crazy and deluded fans, and the stench of elitism is sky high.

      …Perhaps we just need a fandom dedicated to common sense…

  25. You mean men who surround themselves with fantasy, fantasy archetypes, virtual worlds and immerse themselves in an online existence have trouble treating real women as something more than avatars and objects? This is shocking!

  26. I just wanted to add, if a guy acts like a dick, it’s always his fault. Full stop. If a women wants to walk around dressed, in a way anyone might think is provocative, then that is their problem. I grew up within the f***ed up subculture that is evangelical Christianity, and so I get really tired of blame the victim real fast. People can dress, or not dress, however they want. If that causes me or you to treat them as lesser beings, then that’s our problem, not theirs.
    Good post.
    Cheers.

    • Thanks! (tbh, had I realised so many people would see it, I would have written it properly, and not as a rant XD)

      And I agree so very much. I recently read a post that pointed out that men thinking that they have rights to women just because of the way they dress, and thinking that the effort is all for them, is just so very egocentric.

      I’ve been pretty lucky myself, living in Cambridge and London, and in central London at that, studying at a pretty hippy university, I rarely meet men like that. All the guys I know might possibly be more outraged by rape and objectification than many of them women I know. Probably for similar reasons I have an intense hate for gold digging women, not that they are of the same level of heinousness, but it’s a bad reflection on your gender… In a way, so many decent guys get bad rep just because they’re men, because other men are assholes. I just wish society would get over blaming whole groups for the actions of a few. Not all feminists are anti-men. Not all Christians are completely ignorant. Not all Muslims are extremists. Not all men are rapists. Not all women are whores or gold diggers. It’s just damn common sense, but apparently, common sense just doesn’t prevail :(

      ….Okay, apparently I am incapable of writing about these issues without ranting xD

      But yes, thanks for your comment!

  27. It took me a minute to realize that “kthnxbye” isn’t a word in Klingon, as I initially suspected. Does that make me old?

  28. I feel like I should apologise on behalf of Warhammer players. It’s a fun hobby, but for some reason it does trend extremely male (at least in terms of the people you see in the stores), and many of those guys seem to like it that way and take a defensive attitude towards any woman threatening to intrude on their man club. I can understand that attitude coming from 12 year olds, it’s a little more depressing to see it coming from guys in their 40s… I mean, heaven forbid that they might actually talk to a girl who shares their interests! I do know a couple of female Warhammer players, but I expect they don’t spend much time in the stores for that reason.

  29. I’m lucky that, as a genderqueer person who identifies more as male, 95% of my costuming is in male character costumes. But I was born with the female parts, and I DO occasionally wear female costumes at conventions. (Hey, it’s drag.) And the result? Well, it’s great that I have a nice ass, but I almost ripped a guy’s head off at Dragon*Con for taking a picture of it while I was trying to deflate a prop after the Dawn Lookalike competition. Bastard didn’t even ask, my feet were killing me, and I was NOT in the mood to be a sex object. (Seriously, the FEET. Dear gods, how do you women wear some of those crazy shoes???)

    But in my male costumes? Let’s see… Sean Astin called me “Mr. Frodo” when I was wearing my Frodo costume, and was so very cordial to me. I got some awesome laughs onstage as Cadet Kirk missing half of his uniform. I’ve had some grand antics dressed as Captain Kirk in TOS/AOS attire. And cosplay as Harry Potter is just FUN.

    And without costumes at all? Well, that’s how I met William Shatner… and I ended up with him pulling me up onstage for a bear hug… so no, you don’t need costumes to make an impression. I met Avery Brooks while in costume, but he recognized me the next day, out of costume, in the audience, from the stage, and pulled me up onstage there, too. (Seriously, I don’t know how I do shit like this.)

    But as far as girl-only communities? Even though I identify as male, I grew up socialized as female. And I’m not on hormones (yet) so I still present as female a lot. I’m a slash writer, and there IS a brilliant sense of community in the primarily-female LJ comms. Sure, some fandoms get competitive about our fanfic (I used to write Harry/Draco, and for a few years, it was CUTTHROAT competitive), but most fandoms are great. ONTD_startrek is awesome, and so are the spinoff groups. The Jim&Bones community is the best bunch of fandom loves you could ever want to meet. I started my own meetup group here in the USA, and we’ve been growing steadily for 2 and a half years now, with over 60 members (20 – 30 active) because there are no gender judgements, and we’re here for FUN. And it’s nice to be able to ENJOY your fandom with people instead of having to prove something.

    The way I see it, the “old-school” fandom groups are getting it all wrong, and if they drive away potential members who just want to have fun, then it’s their loss. You’re totally a GQMF.

    LL&P, bb.

    • Now that’s one BAMF comment bb. I’ve met some of the best people on ontd startrek, unfortunately the UK part is really small D: We always envied the huge US ONTD Star Trek meet ups ;_;

      Hah, I was always a Snarrier, and Snupin… and Snack… I imagine you can see where my persuasion lies :P Those pairings have a very friendly community, but I can imagine what H/D was like.. The worst fandom for batshit crazy are various JRock ones, and I will never understand the mindset of some in the group… Just… batshit.

      And it’s all about Jim & Spock >D Though I’m loving all our common fandoms, we’re in all the same stuff, just slightly different branches :D Do you happen to have twitter? My LJ has been loooong abandoned :/ And you my friend, are much GQMF, so I’d love to follow you 8D

      LL&P bb x

      • I do see where your HP fanfic persuasion lies, and it’s a good and tasty persuasion. Snarry was my second HP ship, and I wrote some H/D/S threesome stuff. The Snarry folks were so much fun, and I’m still in touch with some of them. I’m not so much in touch with the H/D folks anymore… just because the wank got to be too much. Sad but true.

        You know… I DO know some ST folks around London. Maybe I could help cross-connect you guys. Fandom communities are the stuff of life. (I met my lovely wife because of fandom.)

        Oh, the true and t00b love of Kirk and Spock… in TOS. I grew up on Star Trek, and there was no denying the Kirk/Spock in the original. Actually, I kinda shipped any combination of the three of them in TOS. But in AOS… I just can’t feel the Kirk/Spock vibe. It just didn’t show in the movie. Maybe in the next one, but right now, the (b)romance between Kirk and McCoy in the new movie was just too juicy to leave alone. I mean… why would McCoy risk his only chance at rebooting (ha.) his career by smuggling someone who was just his drinking buddy aboard the flagship of the Federation in the middle of a “minor” crisis? As far as Bones knew, they’d be back to Earth after a short hop to Vulcan in response to the distress signal, and he’d see Jim again in a couple of days. Additionally, if you watch the interpersonal dynamic between the two during that scene where Bones drugs Jim with the mud flea vaccination… oh, bb, that is the STUFF that BDSM fics were made of. (Bad fanboy, go to my room.) But just because I’m onboard with the K/Mc stuff in AOS doesn’t mean I don’t have love for all the other shippers. I think that’s what’s so grand about the ontd_st comm and its spinoff groups – it’s all love. I don’t see (much) shipping wars or other such bullshit wank. I’m just sad that the comm has been so quiet lately. But I think that’s the other reason why I’m loving the Jim&Bones comm… they’re still active right now. (You can come visit, even if you’re a K/S shipper.)

        Alas… I *have* twitter, but I don’t use it. LJ is still my primary fandom operating platform. You *could* always un-abandon your LJ and join the fun again. And I would very much like to follow you, too. Hmmm… what shall we do? I’m “mijan” on LJ. What’s your twitter? :D

        LL&P, bb!

        • I swear fandom is the best place to meet people. As long as you avoid the crazies that is XD

          I’m all about TOS Spock/Kirk. But then, I have a probably inappropriate love for Leonard Nimoy that transcends logic.

          I’m sakuraso on absolutely everything XD You should go on twitter more! 8D I’ve been on LJ since I was 11 years old, so I’m kinda bored of it XD most of my friends also seem to have grown out of it, so many of my friends are gone too D8

          P&LL, bb x

          • I totally understand the Nimoy love. And seeing as he’s Jewish and from Boston, I’m going to guess his family and my family crossed paths a lot back in the day. Sadly, I’ve never met him. I’ve met so many other fantastic Star Trek actors, but… yeah… Nimoy. I need to meet him. One of my big regrets in life is that I never met DeForest Kelley.

            Fandom is totally the place for meeting people. I got really lucky and married one of my own fangirls. She knew me from my HP fanfic, we met at a HP convention Las Vegas, and… voila. And hey, I meant to ask, did you go to Sectus? I know a LOT of Snarry folks were there, and I was there, too. Were you? If so, that would be awesome.

            As far as twitter goes… it’s really not my style. I live my life in paragraphs, not truncated sentences, and that’s how I communicate, so twitter doesn’t work for me. I don’t text message (yeah, I’m oddly old-fashioned about some things), I don’t have a smart phone, and I don’t tweet. LJ is still really active, though, and I know a lot of people on the LJ comms. Any chance you’re on g-mail? If so, we should totally chat.

            :D

  30. Remember that these cases of online douchebaggery (sp?) are anecdotal. Did all the geeky guys at the convention post lecherous comments? Did half of them? Did 1%? Or was it less than that?

    You say you lost track of how many times your picture was taken. How many of those pictures ended up being discussed online? You mention 1, but even if it was 5, what happened to all those other pictures? Are all those other geeks discussing your pictures inappropriately somewhere where you haven’t found it yet? Do you have evidence to support this?

    If we think about this skeptically, whenever you get together with huge numbers of people (male, female, geek or otherwise), there will be asshats in that group. Assuming that the asshats represent everyone is not skeptical thought.

    • Your point would be completely great and awesome… if I was making the case that all male geeks are douches. Most people reading my little rant managed to realise it wasn’t about every single geek out there.

      Also, I feel the need to point out… more like 20%. From your email address it seems you’re from Canada – your conventions, as well as US ones are much much much bigger than ours, when you cut out the first time goers, you pretty much recognise all the regulars.

      And again, I need to point out, that I wasn’t talking about all geeks, or all men.

  31. OMG I know just how you feel! I used to play Warhammer back in the mid-late 90s. I still remember the first time I walked into the store in Philadelphia and my god did they treat me like an idiot. That day they had a 500 point skirmish tournament and I entered and went undefeated. Did that earn me any respect? Hell no! I was not only new but I was a GIRL. I went undefeated and took first place for the next three years in the league and I was constantly called out on rules and guys who I was beating 20 to 0 were demanding re-matches. Where I would see the loser of another game shake his opponents hand when he was done or joke around with him during the game, the majority of the guys I played looked like they wanted to spit on me. And then I dared to go to the national tournament. I was the only woman competing and went undefeated until the final round. The entire time I was constantly challenged on rules, and I’d say one in five guys treated me nicely. The rest either hated me for beating them (they lost to a girl!) or treated me like I was a freak.

    I will never understand geek guys. Ever.

    • I’m really sorry for the late response!
      You’ve had such a rough time, but definite kudos to you for still continuing! You’ve had it far worse than me and still continued, whereas I so easily got discouraged despite my experiences being easier than yours :/

      At least the majority of my experiences with geek guys were fine, just being a vocal minority that spoilt it, though it seems you had the opposite problem >.< Serious kudos to you for carrying on!!

  32. Absolutely a great read. Shared on Facebook for my fellow geeks, who I hope will take it to heart. Definitely a Trek fan too, and one who finds it ironic that fans of a show which promotes gender equality can so completely miss the bigger picture. Kudos! And K’Plah!

    • I’m really sorry it took me so long to reply! I’m glad you liked, though I wish I hadn’t made it such a rant XD
      Though to be fair, the vast majority of fans are great – but as with everything in life, a small vocal minority tend to spoil things D8 But the majority of fans tend to take up the slack for the few idiots XP LLAP!

  33. “The Girl Geek Community is Hidden, Ever Wondered Why?
    | keep me running wild” ended up being a truly excellent article, .
    I hope you keep posting and I’ll continue to keep reading through! Thanks for your effort -Leah

  34. Hi! I just wish to offer you a big thumbs up
    for the excellent info you have got right here on this post.
    I’ll be returning to your blog for more soon.

  35. Very, very well written. Maybe in the future girls won’t need to be afraid of being geeky, or being scrutinized by the geeky guys. Let’s face it: we’re all outcasts. Can’t we all be outcasts together? :)

    • Exactly! 8D
      But what I really wish… had I known so many people would see this, I wouldn’t have written such a rant about it XD Not that I don’t stand by everything I said, but yeeeaaaah, it’s very rant rant rant rant.
      I always find it really off putting when I’m asked what I like, and then I’m pretty much interrogated and have to PROVE it. Why can’t it be taken at face value? So annoying, being outcast by the outcasts o.O; and then get ripped on for not dating the outcasts, what the hell?

      There was one guy… when he heard I liked video games etc, his first question, instead of the usual ‘prove it’ types, was just ‘do you like this series? it’s my favourite!!’ – …we’ve been dating 2 years now XD

  36. As I read this, a bunch of what my current girlfriend has talked to me about came back to my memory. See… she is a geek, and so am I. I always found it odd how other geek guys would ostracize girl geeks. I mean, who better that could actually understand you than a partner that is into the same things as you? Why don’t you treat these girls with the respect they deserve? She told me how she has had to fight for every inch of her geekdom, and to me that just sounds crazy. So now I’m with an awesome awesome awesome girl that I absolutely adore that I can talk to about all sorts of geeky stuff, and she knows she can talk to me about all the geeky stuff she loves as well. I’m actually getting her into Star Trek, and she is going to correct a sin of mine by sitting me down to watch District 9 (among a number of movies I haven’t seen. To much Star Trek? XD ).

    Anyways, enough of my rambling, I know you think this came off as ranty, but I enjoyed the read regardless. If you read this comment, excellent write up. A++++ Old eBay style, would read again.

  37. You know what’s so hypocritical about “geeky” guys, they claim they don’t believe in wanting a woman for her looks, yet they only go after me after seeing my profile picture. Now I know how candy bars feel. lol. Just love me for my face, not what I have on the inside. There’s a reason these types of men can’t find a decent woman. They oust the “ugly” one’s, and degrade the “good-looking” one’s. So it’s lose-lose for those men. They also always think talking about their love of Cookies, or rain, is something new, but it isn’t. It’s just repeating what other trekkies said. And they always think they’re awesome.

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